Augustine's error - 002 - Revision history

Dubbayou2 at 17:09, 27 November 2014

2014-11-27T17:09:03Z

Dubbayou2 at 04:52, 24 November 2013

2013-11-24T04:52:06Z

Dubbayou2: /* An improper beginning */

2013-10-26T21:03:06Z

‎An improper beginning

Pig at 03:19, 22 October 2013

2013-10-22T03:19:45Z

Pig: /* An improper beginning */

2013-10-22T03:19:17Z

‎An improper beginning

Pig at 02:47, 22 October 2013

2013-10-22T02:47:43Z

Pig at 02:46, 22 October 2013

2013-10-22T02:46:56Z

Pig: Created page with " These are not intended to be an article yet. Just a collection of notes which will be expounded upon using the methods of sensus plenior. Be sure to ask if a particular topi..."

2013-10-22T02:44:58Z

Created page with " These are not intended to be an article yet. Just a collection of notes which will be expounded upon using the methods of sensus plenior. Be sure to ask if a particular topi..."

New page

These are not intended to be an article yet. Just a collection of notes which will be expounded upon using the methods of sensus plenior. Be sure to ask if a particular topic is of interest to you and I will move it up in my schedule.

==Underestimating the wisdom of God==
Possessing a classical education which included philosophy, rhetoric and grammar as well as a sophisticated and technical understanding of the nature and functioning of language, Augustine desired to convince his educated peers that the Bible was to be respected as fine literature. This was his first mistake.

:[[1Co 1:20]] Where [is] the wise? where [is] the scribe? where [is] the disputer of this world? hath not God made foolish the wisdom of this world?

The Bible is not merely fine literature. It is the infinitely sublime wisdom of God which is considered foolishness to the world and which makes the wisdom of the world to be foolishness. By attempting to make it conform to the standards of fine writing, he reduced it and limited discovery to those things which merely human methods could discover.

==Philosophical arrogance==
His fundamental error was the proposition that God spoke to man in stories in order that the most simple among fallen men could understand what he wished to communicate. This is contrary to what Jesus said:

:[[Lu 8:10]] And he said, Unto you it is given to know the mysteries of the kingdom of God: but to others in parables; that seeing they might not see, and hearing they might not understand.

God hid the true meaning from them.

:[[1Co 2:7]] But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, [even] the hidden [wisdom], which God ordained before the world unto our glory:

Although the message of the Gospel is simple, and can be understood from the literal message of the Bible, God has hidden the message of the Gospel in the scriptures from the beginning.

:[[Eph 3:9]] And to make all [men] see what [is] the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ:

==An improper beginning==
"We have wandered far from God, and if we wish to return..." hold that thought Augustine.

:Ps 51:5 Behold, I was shapen in iniquity; and in sin did my mother conceive me.

We did not merely wander from God. We were born sinful with carnal minds at war with God. ([[Ro 8.7]])

==God ineffable?==
Augustine speaks about God being unspeakable, but he has created a God of his own imagination. If it were impossible to speak of God, then it would not be proper for him to command us to do so.

:1Ch 16:24 Declare his glory among the heathen; his marvellous works among all nations.
:Ps 96:3 Declare his glory among the heathen, his wonders among all people.
:Ps 145:6 And [men] shall speak of the might of thy terrible acts: and I will declare thy greatness.
:Isa 66:19 And I will set a sign among them, and I will send those that escape of them unto the nations, [to] Tarshish, Pul, and Lud, that draw the bow, [to] Tubal, and Javan, [to] the isles afar off, that have not heard my fame, neither have seen my glory; and they shall declare my glory among the Gentiles.

The very purpose of Christ was to make God known:
:Joh 14:7 If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him.
:Joh 14:9 Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father?

==God a dead stone==
Augustine philosophically declared God to be unchangeable. There is grave danger in declaring a doctrine then holding God to your declaration. Did God intend to say that he was effectively dead because he is unchangeable? When Christ became incarnate, wasn't that a change? Did he say it was impossible for the incarnation because he was unchangeable? Of course not! When Jesus moved from Galilee to Jerusalem did he change position? Did he cease to be God because he moved from place to place? Did he cease to be God because he grew from a baby into a man? Of course not.

Could God learn something?

:Heb 5:8 Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered;

Could God forget something?

:Heb 10:17 And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more.

Since the heaven of heavens cannot contain God, that is, nothing is larger than God. Where did God create the universe? He could not create it outside of himself, since there is nothing outside of God. All things exist "in him". He must have made room for us inside of himself. Is that not a change?

Augustine's unchangeable God is more of a slave to predestination than we are. He just exists in a stagnant eternal reality. Augustine's God is dead.

Augustine may not have intended to foist such a false God upon Christendom, and there is room to interpret his writings to limit his intention to speak only of God's unchangeable wisdom. However, his philosophy has been used to limit God's sovereignty to unimaginable extremes.

The God of the Bible changes in the ways that he chooses to change. He declared that his moral intent and his will does not change.

:Mal 3:5 And I will come near to you to judgment; and I will be a swift witness against the sorcerers, and against the adulterers, and against false swearers, and against those that oppress the hireling in [his] wages, the widow, and the fatherless, and that turn aside the stranger [from his right], and fear not me, saith the LORD of hosts.
:Mal 3:6 '''For I [am] the LORD, I change not'''; therefore ye sons of Jacob are not consumed.

Augustine's wild philosophical/doctrinal imagination does not obligate God.

==Augustine's sick bride==
Augustine (ch 16) imagines that the bride of Christ is ill and needs to be purged of her afflictions. The bride of Christ is a prostitute which he makes into a virgin bride by bearing her iniquity and giving her new life. Perhaps our differences are semantic on this point.

==The wrong keys==
Augustine supposes that the keys to the Kingdom of heaven are the keys to membership in the church. The Kingdom of heaven is the New Jerusalem; the 'new teaching of peace', which Jesus ushered in with the sermon the mount. The keys to the new teaching are the prophecies of the cross in the Old Testament scriptures. see [[Keys of the kingdom]] Peter was given the keys (understanding) to unlock the mystery of the cross that was hidden from the beginning.

==The wrong love==
Augustine (ch 26) argues that love of ourselves is commanded in "love your neighbor as yourself". This comes from a misunderstanding of love. Love = 1, hate = 2 or more. The thing that is first is loved. Jacob I loved, Esau I hated". It has nothing to do with affection, but pre-eminence. Since we are to love even our enemy, then our self can never legitimately be first.

==Augustine's God uses man rather than enjoys him==
Ch 31. Once again his philosophy appears to be willing ignorance of the scriptures:

:Nu 14:8 If the LORD delight in us, then he will bring us into this land, and give it us; a land which floweth with milk and honey.
:De 10:15 Only the LORD had a delight in thy fathers to love them, and he chose their seed after them, [even] you above all people, as [it is] this day.
:2Sa 22:20 He brought me forth also into a large place: he delivered me, because he delighted in me.
:2Sa 1:24 Ye daughters of Israel, weep over Saul, who clothed you in scarlet, with [other] delights, who put on ornaments of gold upon your apparel.
:Ps 18:19 He brought me forth also into a large place; he delivered me, because he delighted in me.
:Pr 3:12 For whom the LORD loveth he correcteth; even as a father the son [in whom] he delighteth.
:Pr 15:8 ¶ The sacrifice of the wicked [is] an abomination to the LORD: but the prayer of the upright [is] his delight.

It is likely that his invented doctrine of an unchanging God prohibited him from seeing that life and personality of God which takes delight in men. .... yep Ch 32

==Love devoid of knowledge==
Ch 35 "The purpose of the scriptures is that we love God" The purpose according to scripture is to acknowledge God as God and then to love him. It is placing him first because He is Holy/Separate.

==Teeth are holy men??==
Augustine uses pure free-for-all allegory.

Teeth are the equivalent of the two-edged sword. They are white/holy. Add an alef and it becomes 'hate' the sharp two-edged sword judges... places one second. Teeth are associated with the mouth and the word ... the same as the sword.

==Among versions preference given to Septuagint==
V2 ch15. Ouch... a translation preferable to the original.

==Outside authority==
Ch 18 Augustine uses profane sources. Scriptures are self-contained. The interpretation of the prophets is subject to the spirit of the prophets, not pagans.

==THe spiritual meaning==
v3 ch5
He seems to get it right: "Now it is surely a miserable slavery of the soul to take signs for things, and to be unable to lift the eye of the mind above what is corporeal and created, that it may drink in eternal light."

==Spiritual freedom in signs==
Ch 9 baptism and communion ... body and blood a sign.. not the reality.

==How to determine if a phrase is figurative==
"Whatever there is in the word of God that cannot, when taken literally, be referred either to purity of life or soundness of doctrine, you may set down as figurative."

Massive error. All the Old testament is two to four layers.

==Error of practice==
Ch 12 better to eat fish like the Lord than lentils like Esau...

==Error of interpretation==
Ch 12 -20 Excuses polygamy based on necessity of procreation. Rather than on the symbol of marriage and the picture of the church as the prostitute-virgin bride.

==Inconsistent meaning==
Ch 25 Specifically uses leaven wrongly. Says it doesn't have to mean the same thing everywhere.

==Ch 31==
Rules of
Tichonius

Good. Christ and his body are interchangeable

==32==
Good. Prostitute bride theme of the church without mentioning it.

==33==
good.
Grace vs. law

==34==
good
species vs. genus.... part vs. whole

==35==
of times part of a day is a day, etc.

special numbers are figurative:
7, 10, 12 etc

==36==
recapitualation

==Teaches rhetoric==
V4

==Don't teach all scripture==
Ch 9

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−	~~=This page is under Construction. These are just notes which will be filled out.=~~
−
−


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	[[Augustine's error - 003 \| Ch 3]]		[[Augustine's error - 003 \| Ch 3]]
−
−	~~==God ineffable?==~~
−	~~Augustine speaks about God being unspeakable, but he has created a God of his own imagination. If it were impossible to speak of God, then it would not be proper for him to command us to do so.~~
−
−	~~:1Ch 16:24 Declare his glory among the heathen; his marvellous works among all nations.~~
−	~~:Ps 96:3 Declare his glory among the heathen, his wonders among all people.~~
−	~~:Ps 145:6 And [men] shall speak of the might of thy terrible acts: and I will declare thy greatness.~~
−	:Isa 66:19 And I will set a sign among them, and I will send those that escape of them unto the nations, [to] Tarshish, Pul, and Lud, that draw the bow, [to] Tubal, and Javan, [to] the isles afar off, that have not heard my fame, neither have seen my glory; and they shall declare my glory among the Gentiles.
−
−	~~The very purpose of Christ was to make God known:~~
−	~~:Joh 14:7 If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him.~~
−	~~:Joh 14:9 Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father?~~
−
−	~~==God a dead stone==~~
−	Augustine philosophically declared God to be unchangeable. There is grave danger in declaring a doctrine then holding God to your declaration. Did God intend to say that he was effectively dead because he is unchangeable? When Christ became incarnate, wasn't that a change? Did he say it was impossible for the incarnation because he was unchangeable? Of course not! When Jesus moved from Galilee to Jerusalem did he change position? Did he cease to be God because he moved from place to place? Did he cease to be God because he grew from a baby into a man? Of course not.
−
−	~~Could God learn something?~~
−
−	~~:Heb 5:8 Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered;~~
−
−	~~Could God forget something?~~
−
−	~~:Heb 10:17 And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more.~~
−
−	Since the heaven of heavens cannot contain God, that is, nothing is larger than God. Where did God create the universe? He could not create it outside of himself, since there is nothing outside of God. All things exist "in him". He must have made room for us inside of himself. Is that not a change?
−
−	~~Augustine's unchangeable God is more of a slave to predestination than we are. He just exists in a stagnant eternal reality. Augustine's God is dead.~~
−
−	Augustine may not have intended to foist such a false God upon Christendom, and there is room to interpret his writings to limit his intention to speak only of God's unchangeable wisdom. However, his philosophy has been used to limit God's sovereignty to unimaginable extremes.
−
−	~~The God of the Bible changes in the ways that he chooses to change. He declared that his moral intent and his will does not change.~~
−
−	:Mal 3:5 And I will come near to you to judgment; and I will be a swift witness against the sorcerers, and against the adulterers, and against false swearers, and against those that oppress the hireling in [his] wages, the widow, and the fatherless, and that turn aside the stranger [from his right], and fear not me, saith the LORD of hosts.
−	~~:Mal 3:6 '''For I [am] the LORD, I change not'''; therefore ye sons of Jacob are not consumed.~~
−
−	~~Augustine's wild philosophical/doctrinal imagination does not obligate God.~~
−
−	~~==Augustine's sick bride==~~
−	Augustine (ch 16) imagines that the bride of Christ is ill and needs to be purged of her afflictions. The bride of Christ is a prostitute which he makes into a virgin bride by bearing her iniquity and giving her new life. Perhaps our differences are semantic on this point.
−
−	~~==The wrong keys==~~
−	Augustine supposes that the keys to the Kingdom of heaven are the keys to membership in the church. The Kingdom of heaven is the New Jerusalem; the 'new teaching of peace', which Jesus ushered in with the sermon the mount. The keys to the new teaching are the prophecies of the cross in the Old Testament scriptures. see [[Keys of the kingdom]] Peter was given the keys (understanding) to unlock the mystery of the cross that was hidden from the beginning.
−
−	~~==The wrong love==~~
−	Augustine (ch 26) argues that love of ourselves is commanded in "love your neighbor as yourself". This comes from a misunderstanding of love. Love = 1, hate = 2 or more. The thing that is first is loved. Jacob I loved, Esau I hated". It has nothing to do with affection, but pre-eminence. Since we are to love even our enemy, then our self can never legitimately be first.
−
−	~~==Augustine's God uses man rather than enjoys him==~~
−	~~Ch 31. Once again his philosophy appears to be willing ignorance of the scriptures:~~
−
−	~~:Nu 14:8 If the LORD delight in us, then he will bring us into this land, and give it us; a land which floweth with milk and honey.~~
−	~~:De 10:15 Only the LORD had a delight in thy fathers to love them, and he chose their seed after them, [even] you above all people, as [it is] this day.~~
−	~~:2Sa 22:20 He brought me forth also into a large place: he delivered me, because he delighted in me.~~
−	~~:2Sa 1:24 Ye daughters of Israel, weep over Saul, who clothed you in scarlet, with [other] delights, who put on ornaments of gold upon your apparel.~~
−	~~:Ps 18:19 He brought me forth also into a large place; he delivered me, because he delighted in me.~~
−	~~:Pr 3:12 For whom the LORD loveth he correcteth; even as a father the son [in whom] he delighteth.~~
−	~~:Pr 15:8 ¶ The sacrifice of the wicked [is] an abomination to the LORD: but the prayer of the upright [is] his delight.~~
−
−
−	~~It is likely that his invented doctrine of an unchanging God prohibited him from seeing that life and personality of God which takes delight in men. .... yep Ch 32~~
−
−
−	~~==Love devoid of knowledge==~~
−	~~Ch 35 "The purpose of the scriptures is that we love God" The purpose according to scripture is to acknowledge God as God and then to love him. It is placing him first because He is Holy/Separate.~~
−
−	~~==Teeth are holy men??==~~
−	~~Augustine uses pure free-for-all allegory.~~
−
−	Teeth are the equivalent of the two-edged sword. They are white/holy. Add an alef and it becomes 'hate' the sharp two-edged sword judges... places one second. Teeth are associated with the mouth and the word ... the same as the sword.
−
−
−	~~==Among versions preference given to Septuagint==~~
−	~~V2 ch15. Ouch... a translation preferable to the original.~~
−
−	~~==Outside authority==~~
−	~~Ch 18 Augustine uses profane sources. Scriptures are self-contained. The interpretation of the prophets is subject to the spirit of the prophets, not pagans.~~
−
−
−	~~==THe spiritual meaning==~~
−	~~v3 ch5~~
−	He seems to get it right: "Now it is surely a miserable slavery of the soul to take signs for things, and to be unable to lift the eye of the mind above what is corporeal and created, that it may drink in eternal light."
−
−
−	~~==Spiritual freedom in signs==~~
−	~~Ch 9 baptism and communion ... body and blood a sign.. not the reality.~~
−
−	~~==How to determine if a phrase is figurative==~~
−	~~"Whatever there is in the word of God that cannot, when taken literally, be referred either to purity of life or soundness of doctrine, you may set down as figurative."~~
−
−	~~Massive error. All the Old testament is two to four layers.~~
−
−	~~==Error of practice==~~
−	~~Ch 12 better to eat fish like the Lord than lentils like Esau...~~
−
−	~~==Error of interpretation==~~
−	~~Ch 12 -20 Excuses polygamy based on necessity of procreation. Rather than on the symbol of marriage and the picture of the church as the prostitute-virgin bride.~~
−
−	~~==Inconsistent meaning==~~
−	~~Ch 25 Specifically uses leaven wrongly. Says it doesn't have to mean the same thing everywhere.~~
−
−	~~==Ch 31==~~
−	~~Rules of~~
−	~~Tichonius~~
−
−	~~Good. Christ and his body are interchangeable~~
−
−	~~==32==~~
−	~~Good. Prostitute bride theme of the church without mentioning it.~~
−
−	~~==33==~~
−	~~good.~~
−	~~Grace vs. law~~
−
−	~~==34==~~
−	~~good~~
−	~~species vs. genus.... part vs. whole~~
−
−	~~==35==~~
−	~~of times part of a day is a day, etc.~~
−
−	~~special numbers are figurative:~~
−	~~7, 10, 12 etc~~
−
−	~~==36==~~
−	~~recapitualation~~
−
−	~~==Teaches rhetoric==~~
−	V4
−
−	~~==Don't teach all scripture==~~
−	~~Ch 9~~

← Older revision		Revision as of 02:47, 22 October 2013
Line 1:		Line 1:
−	~~=Under Construction=~~	+
−	~~=Under Construction=~~	+	=This page is under Construction. These are just notes which will be filled out.=
−	~~=Under Construction=~~
−	=~~Under~~ Construction=

@@ Line 26: / Line 26: @@
 ==An improper beginning==
-"We have wandered far from God, and if we wish to return..." hold that thought Augustine.
+:"We have wandered far from God, and if we wish to return..."  V1. Ch 4
 :Ps 51:5 Behold, I was shapen in iniquity; and in sin did my mother conceive me.
-We did not merely wander from God. We were born sinful with carnal minds at war with God. ([[Ro 8.7]])
 ==God ineffable?==

← Older revision		Revision as of 02:46, 22 October 2013
Line 1:		Line 1:
		+	=Under Construction=
		+	=Under Construction=
		+	=Under Construction=
		+	=Under Construction=

−	These are not intended to be an article yet. Just a collection of notes which will be expounded upon using the methods of sensus plenior. Be sure to ask if a particular topic is of interest to you and I will move it up in my schedule.