Three days searching

Q:

Our priest said during RCIA that Mary and Joseph's three day search was a prefigurement of the 3 days that Jesus would spend in the tomb.

He said it also was a reminded to Mary of her travail, which Simeon foretold at Jesus' circumcision at the Temple, that a sword would also pierce her heart.

P.S. Jesus and Mary were of about the same age when they were called by the Father to begin a mission. Mary to conceive and Jesus to instruct. A: This is right.

Jesus was in the temple as a direct fulfillment of prophecy Ge 14:4 Twelve years they served Chedorlaomer, and in the thirteenth year they rebelled.

Each of the nine kings referred to is a shadow of Christ. Together they represent Christ as the divine word (four represent the four voices as prophet, priest, king and judge) and as the flesh (five is the number of man). The was between the four and the five prophesy Jesus's coming of age where he began to wrestle against the temptations of the flesh.

Chedorlaomer means 'handful of sheaves' Israel is the harvest of sheaves and his parents are just a few, so they are the handful of sheaves. Jesus served them 12 years, and then 'rebelled'. This is riddle language and does not accuse him of sin.

He is at the temple preparing for bar mitzvah. One of the questions that he would ask is "What are these stones" referring to a pile of rocks by the water. But instead of asking the way other children did, he asked about the stone that was split and gave water, the cleft in the rock, Jacob's pillow that was many stones in the evening and a single stone in the morning, and David's five smooth stones that he put in his shepherd's vessel.

As he asked about them, the teachers saw a picture of the promised messiah in each of the stones that they had never seen before.

From his perspective, he was becoming a man and as a man, his rearing would move from his mother to his father. He expected to now be trained by God the Father. Mary and Joseph reminded him that he was still in their care.

He would not be 'weaned' until the wedding at Cana, where before this he could show where he was staying, and after he had no place to stay. Jesus had said to Mary that he was not yet ready, and she pushed him out knowing that it was his time to walk with his Father.

When Jesus was asked "why have you treated us this way" is was akin to asking "Why have you hated us this way". Hate is simply not thinking of the other person first. It is the opposite of love, which is putting the other first. Jesus would use this later when he would say that we must hate our father and mother to follow him. He simply is saying that He must come before even parents. And this claim of his is another evidence that he equated himself with God.

As the kings prefigures Jesus in the temple, they also prefigure Christ on the cross. Jesus served Israel 'twelve years' these represent the ful Torah word of God spoken by 3 (father, Son, Holy Ghost) in four voices (3x4 =12)

When he was finished he 'rebelled'. Now the rebellion represents Gethsemane and the war represent the cross. After the rebellion, they eat bread, prefiguring the Eucharist.

Help Needed To Understand This Scripture Quote: Originally Posted by Chris W View Post Yes, this is what I think of with the finding in the temple. Mary did know who He is, and she knew it was not his time yet. So I think she really was asking "Why..." but more in the context of "why are you doing this now?...if you keep this up they will know who you are before the time has come for your ministry", rather than expressing surprise about why he'd wander off or surprise at where they found him.

And then Jesus demonstrated for us his obedience to his parents, such that when the wedding at Cana happened, He waited until his Mother said he should perform the miracle and begin His ministry. A: The narrative of Manasseh also plays into the foreshadowing. He was 12 when he became king. From the end of the shadow contained therein, we learn when Jesus knew he was God:

2Ch 33:13 And prayed unto him: and he was intreated of him, and heard his supplication, and brought him again to Jerusalem into his kingdom. Then Manasseh knew that the LORD he was God.

After the wedding at Cana, Jesus returned to Jerusalem, and by that time he was fully convinced having received the testimony at Cana and at his baptism, that he was God in the flesh.

He had started as a baby knowing nothing of his own nature, and as Elijah was fed first by the widow, before he performed the miracle of feeding her, so Jesus was fed the word first by his parents before he could feed them in abundance.

Help Needed To Understand This Scripture Quote: Originally Posted by Chris W View Post Interesting. I've always figured Jesus had full knowledge of his identity and mission throught his whole life. I'm not saying I disagree with you necesarily, it just is hard for me to digest, the idea that God in human form would not have awareness of being God.

By chance are you aware if any of the church fathers have written on this subject? I'd be interested to read more about the concept... A: Aslo see my comments in the 'Did Jesus have faith' thread.

The basis of it is:

Phil 2.6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God: 7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:

'made himself no reputation' is the word 'kenosis' which means to empty. Adam's sin was wanting to be like God. Jesus reversed it, being God, chose to not use one ounce of divinity in resisting the same temptations we face.

Many of the fathers wrote about it. I just don't have immediate references. I wouldn't be surprised to find it in your catechism.

Help Needed To Understand This Scripture We prefer not to think of Jesus as being 'emptied' because we excuse his sinlessness by his being God. (and thereby excuse our sinfulness).

But he faced the same temptations as we and did not use divine advantage to resist them. This is why John says that his life is the light, and the light is the condemnation.

Jesus condemns us by his perfect life, not using divinity, by removing all our excuses to sin. His life makes him our judge. Having condemned us by his life, his death makes him our high priest.

Help Needed To Understand This Scripture Quote: Originally Posted by Chris W View Post Very interesting. I think of Jesus suffering in the Garden asking the Father to let the cup pass Him by if it be the Father's will...and I can empathize it being a human, fearful thing. Or, I can picture Jesus being tempted in the desert, and his hunger being real human hunger, etc. I just never contemplated the majority of Jesus' life on earth as so...human I guess. I pictured him having to have patience as he was instructed as a child, He who was present at the creation of the world, but I never thought of Him having to learn to spell correctly, for example.

That leads me to another thought then: It still must've been both, not completely absent of self knowledge of Him being God. Because the men in the temple were astounded by His vast knowledge of Scripture, and His authoritative interpretation of Scripture.

Just kinda thinking out loud.

Thanks for the insights. A: The prophecies tell us he did not know that he was God until he returned to Jerusalem after that event.

He simply asked the bar mitvah questions differently than other children, which painted a picture of the messiah that the teachers had not yet seen. Although he knew he was the Son of God at that point, it is doubtful that he really knew what it meant.

I believe by his questions, he taught them the language of prophecy, as a guided discovery. But that is how rabbis taught... by asking questions, not necessarily by knowing answers.

I posted somewhere else on that topic tonight, but don't remember the thread. Sorry.

The books of Matthew and Luke show how he communicated with the Father, and John explains how he learned faith through the Word, Works and Life.

Oh, here's an example of rabbinic teaching. What is the difference between the metaphors of sheep and goats, and wheat and tares. Aren't both sheep and goats clean animals used in sacrifice? You can see how a child could ask that without knowing the answer. It implies a degree of uncommon attention to detail, and thereby insight.

Or, Why when Jacob went to bed was his pillow several rocks, but when he awoke it was a single stone?

Or, Why did the parted water return to normal, but the split rock stayed split?

Each of these riddles has a theologically important answer, if you can find it.